Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Stephen Gates 24 June 2009Andy, Do you, or anyone else have any more info on Henry – I felt from earlier notes on Swan pl that you may have. Regards Steve9 replies Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Roy Grant 24 June 2009In 1832, Henry Gates (greengrocer) and his wife Jane, were living and presumably trading in High Street Brighton. They were at that address in December when their daughter Mary Ann was baptised. Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Roy Grant 24 June 2009Comparing recent and previous Gates findings, throws up a few questions. [1] Was the Henry Gates who married Jane Burgess in 1828, the same man who married Elizabeth Vine in 1838? (Did Jane die?) [2] Was Henry formerly a shoemaker of Cumberland Place (1828 baptism of James Gates) [3] Whilst the couple were living in High Street from where Mary Ann Gates was baptised in Dec 1832, had they moved temporarily from Edward St where their son Henry Gates was baptised in January of the same year?It is therefore worth investigating whether there were two greengrocers called Henry Gates in town? The children’s names and ages on the 1841 census could help provide an answer. RG Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Andy Grant 24 June 2009Hi Steve, The earliest sighting of Henry in Brighton that I have is in 1832, when he is shown to be a Boot & Shoemaker of Edward Street. This concurs with the birth of a son, Henry, in 1832, to Henry & Jane Gates of Edward Street. Roy alludes to him being in High Street, and this is certainly entirely consistent with it being the same person from the later facts. It would seem Jane died and he remarried Elizabeth Vine in 1838. She bore him a daughter, Miriam the following year. The three of them are shown in the 1841 census, but oddly without the earlier children. These could easily be ‘lost’ with relations, as that census carries no relationship information. Henry appears to have varied his occupation somewhat, ranging from a Fruiterer & Greengrocer, to an Egg Merchant and later as a Pork Butcher. As another odd co-incidence, Elizabeth died in 1842 and Henry again remarried Jane Barham. The family relocated to 25, North Lane, where they appear with Miriam and the surviving missing children. I Hope this clarifies the situation, Regards Andy Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Stephen Gates 24 June 2009Roy, The answers, as far as I know at thsi stage are as follows: 1. No, it was a a different Henry 2. Not that I am aware off – Henrys father was a shoemaker as where his 2 brothers James and Richard, but I don’t have any records that Henry ever was. 3. Again, wrong Gates. I will write more on this when I return home as I really need help trying to sort this out. Many thanks – Steve Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Roy Grant 25 June 2009Steve Your initial request never gave us Henry’s year or place of birth to work on, but I presume Miriam is a child of your Henry Gates you are certain of. I have therefore verified Andy’s find that he was an egg merchant at 25 North Lane in 1851 and confirm your Miriam was with that family. In 1851 census also shows Henry was 43 (from Buxted) and his wife was 34 year old Jane from Brighton. Knowing that Miriam’s mother was Elizabeth, Henry must have remarried once at least. Another indication of this is the 4 year gap between Miriam and Henry, the eldest of her younger half siblings, followed in close succession by Walter, George & Albert. As Jane was 34 in 1851, she would have only been 11 in 1828, making her too young to be a parent of the other children we found, but Henry was not, so an even earlier marriage to another Jane is also a possibility. I suggest you try to obtain or purchase Henry’s M cert to Miriam’s mother Elizabeth to see if that declared him as a batchelor or widower. He appears both in the Saint Nicholas parish marriage registers dated 30 SEP 1838, and under GRO Marriages reference: Sept qtr 1838 GATES Henry Brighton 7 321. Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Stephen Gates 26 June 2009Andy and Roy, Firstly, many thanks for your help & Infomation. These are the facts as I know them. Henry was the middle child of James Gates – shoemaker. The family was originally living at Buxted, but moved to Brighton some time prior to 1832. When henry married Elizabeth Vine in 1838, he was a Bachelor. Elizabeth died in the second qtr, 1842. Henry then married Jabe Barham on October 23, 1842. Due to the short interval, I feel that the two must have know each other prior to Elizabeths death. On both marriage certs, Henry’s occupation was Egg Merchant and his address was 51 Edward St, which feels like the shop where Henry carried on his trade. In the 1851 censous, we have Henry at North Rd, also as an Egg Merchant. Interestly, in the same censous, the occupant of 25 North Rd was also listed as an Egg Merchant, which prehaps meant that the address may have had an allotment attched to it. Interestly, on the ships log at the time of emmigration, Henry and his eldest son both listed their occupations as farmers, which he appeared never to pursue in Australia. Andy, you mentioned that Henry varied his occupation – what is the source of thsi info as it may help sort out the “2 Henrys” Cheers & Regards Steve Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Roy Grant 26 June 2009Steve I appreciate that the info you already have suggests your Henry only married twice, but my personal advice is to not totally dismiss the possibility that he had been married earlier, for the term ‘batchelor’ in the parish records has been known to be incorrect in the past. I am unsure whether Andy’s searches of the 1841 Brighton census has come up with any other Henry Gates with wife Jane but mine of the 1851 did draw a blank. Regarding the Gates children born 1829-1832, it was not uncommon for children of former marriages to be ‘lost’ as babies years due to the high rate of infant mortality in the early to mid 1800s, or to be farmed out to family because the new wife was unwilling to care for them. i therefore reccommend you still keep an open mind, and if the opprtunity ever presents itself (and the Sussex Marriage Index or LDS records are on microfilm in OZ) you inspect the 1828 M cert for familiar names as possible witnesses and take opportunity to plough through the St Nicholas burial records for the children’s deaths to see if the Edward Street address reappears. RG Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Andy Grant 26 June 2009Hi again Steve, When queries are posted to the list regarding the enquirer’s family history, it is generally the case that they will already know from their own research far more than the voluntary contributors to the site. The initial query was about 51, Edward Street and the name Henry Gates was all that was given, which is why a good deal of speculation has been posted. There was certainly more than one Henry Gates in Brighton during that time, at least two being of a similar age. However, the latter of these was a Comptroller of Customs, resident at 25, Middle Street in 1841 and by 1845 was at King’s Road. He appears to have been single in 1841. The crux of the matter seems to hinge around the trades and the address, for which I can only offer facts. It is not impossible that more than one Henry was resident at the address over the period of nearly 20 years, but it would seem unlikely. The facts are that in 1832 a directory lists Henry Gates as a Bootmaker at 50 Edward Street. In 1840 Henry Gates is listed as a Fruiterer & Greengrocer at 51, Edward Street (the house may have been renumbered, or at worst was next door). In 1845/6 he was an Egg Merchant, in 1848 a Fruiterer & Greengrocer. When he moved to North Lane he was described as a Pork Butcher in the local directory of 1851. In the same directory and later ones George Southon was subsequently listed as an Egg Merchant at 51, Edward Street. As I’ve said, those are the facts which can be appended to what has been derived from elsewhere – it is up to you to draw conclusions from them. Regards Andy Re: Henry Gates @ 51 Edward St by Stephen Gates 27 June 2009Andy & Roy, Gentleman, my sincerest thanks for your replies and information. Regards and Best Wishes Steve Add your replyHiddenAdd your title Add your wordsWould you like to add some images (optional)? If so, how many images would you like to add? 1 2 3 4 5 6Your image files will be uploaded when you submit this form. They should be .jpg or .png files. 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